Mr. Perfection 3

2018
Current
Rank
2
Set
Complete
100.00%
Set
Rating
68.844
GPA with
Top Bonuses
68.844
GPA
Weighted
68.344
%DCAM
16.13%

Retired Statistics 2/14/2019

Rank
1
GPA Weighted
68.844
Complete
100.00%
Set Rating
68.844
About This Set: Wow, am I crazy?

Honestly I am not sure.

Yes I paid the astronomical price of 84k for a Lib Nickel.
Ironically I do not even love Lib nickels and would SELL the set.

It does seem absurd. At least I realize this!
My wife at times tells me certain people take advantage of me.
I tell her that is not true because I realize it and allow it to happen for various
reasons.

So let’s assume the nickel was 30k too much. I do realize it might be, but at times people do not care and
make perhaps foolish decisions! In the life’s big picture, depending on what you want and your financial
position, does it matter? I took my wife and two sons to the Super Bowl.
We live near Phila and it was a once in a lifetime event. The cost was 35k! My sons will never forget it!
I lost 250k last year on a liquor license near Atlantic City. The area is hurting from too much competition elsewhere.
Later this year I am selling land to a major convenience store that I bought twenty years ago for six times what I paid.
So everything in life is relative.

Perhaps I was not so crazy. I did pay more that I wanted to by a greater percentage than I believe any other coin
I have EVER purchased! Around 50% more!

To try and justify the price:

The 1910 is the finest nickel in the entire series. It is rare to get a Pop 1 CAC top coin that is the best coin is a series.
Name one!
There are NO 68 DCAMS other than this one. Think about that. 30 years of grading! Most people say grading is too loose.
I think it is WAY too loose but PCGS DOES hold the line on the top coins and is VERY picky on the highest grades. CAC is even tighter!
There are NO other DCAMS.
There are only eleven Cameo 68’s. CAC of course.
There are thirteen PCGS in 68 cam which means they are tight on grading them.
There are no 68 pluses at PCGS
There is a good chance that there will never be another CAC DCAM. This is the first one in ten years of CAC.
There are only 19, 67 DCAMS at PCGS and only 11 are CAC.
The coin is amazing looking.
There were multiple under bidders.

Over time, buying the absolute best of something usually, works out. (not always of course)
I had the number two set of all time for years.
I was going to beat it this year with ALL CAC coins which is nearly impossible to accomplish with ANY set.
However, the top set was sent to PCGS and they upgraded some of coins at the end of last year.
Because of that, there would be no possible way for me to get to the top regardless of money, as there are no CAC coins to buy that
would score high enough.

I believe ten of the coins in the current top set did NOT pass CAC so the number one ranking is dubious. MY set was really number one BEFORE I added this coin!
Perhaps one day PCGS will relent and count CAC the same as a plus which should be obvious and implemented.
Lastly, and the top reason to pay a more than record price for this coin is to beat a number one set of FIFTEEN years. A tough challenge!
That almost NEVER happens unless the top set Is sold and the sets under it purchase some of the coins. I believe this is a first.

In addition, if you take the perhaps 30k extra I paid and spread it over the cost of the entire set it SEEMS to make sense.
There are 31 coins in the set. So if I add 1K to each one I am in this coin for 54K.
When the set is sold, being number one has to bring at least 30k more.
If you follow the sales of almost ALL top sets you will see that most bring record prices in their entirety because of the fact that a #1 set is being sold.
Ducker, Crow River, Gardener (non sets) Newman, and so many others auctions of sets have sold for record money.

I would NEVER have purchased this coin for what I paid by itself.

TWENTY of the coins in this set are PLUSES. For years I have scoured aucitons, dealer sites, shows and more to find the BEST examples of these Nickels.
There is NO doubt that at CAC + 66 is usually a nicer coin than a NON CAC 67.

Lastly I admit I have cheated. There is ONE coin in this set that is not CAC. When I find a replacement I will purchase it! ☺

2017 December 8
It appears that the top Groman set had many of its' coins upgraded. So weak non-CAC
coins are now even a grade higher. This is what some people do to win. However, most knowledgeable
collectors are aware of this. When the coins are sold the prices are indicative of the circumstances.
Sadly many people buy the grade. When a coin does not pass CAC it 100% means that they saw something
they did not care for. Why would I want a coin with issues? Sure, some people believe that even with the issues the coin still grades what is on the holder. Not me. No way Jose.
The Gardener sales are a good example. Gene did not partake in upgrading. His auctions were wonderful!
To me, building a top set means buying the BEST coins that are solid for the grade. If I cannot get to number one, so be it. My all CAC set was only .07 behind the top set. No more. Oh well. So sad.
Happy Holidays!

2017 November #2
Groman did purchase the 1910 for 36k. WOW! A new record for a PR Lib 5C!
I would not pay that just to get to number one. I submit again. I do not see how to get to the top unless
I buy non CAC coins.
I still respectfully challenge Mr. Groman and anyone building a set, to see how many of their coins
will pass the very rigid CAC standards of being "strong for the grade" versus a marginal coin.

2017 November
I never add comments until June but.............Last week a 1910 CAM PCGS/CAC sold at Heritage for
around 36k. WOW! I could not believe it. Sure I bid, but dropped at at 25K all in. I assume one of the
registry people bought it. It was a monster coin but the price seemed so high. I will not buy just to
get ahead in a set. I only have bought one coin since June. Prospects are dim for more but you "never know"

2017 June
I added three coins this year, all CAC. I am still not number one after scouring the auctions, shows, dealer
websites and Ebay for top coins. Hard work and still no go. I do not see it being easy to improve further.
Besides being all CAC, 22 of the coins have a PCGS +. That is not easy. I have replaced many coins with better
looking ones of the same year that were plus worthy. Even though a coin is CAC, there are still differences in the
eye appeal. As of 10/17 I have found no new coins!

For competition purposes I again challenge Mr. Groman to see how many of his coins pass CAC and/ or how many plus grades he can obtain from PCGS.

A top five set should be all CAC approved or "strong for the grade". At the very least it should have ALL,
PCGS + coins which are not easy to obtain. Would you rather have a beautiful PCGS/CAC 66 CAM, or a PCGS 67 CAM without CAC that has been cracked and graded ten times. The last time, a grader gives it the benefit of the doubt
and grades it a 67 CAM? You decide.

Three other notes about CAC.

Complete CAC Set!
June 2016:
I added a handful of nice coins this year. Even with the Top Pop bonuses which I believe are absurd I could have possibly moved to the top if I purchased two non CAC 68's and also two Deep Cams that sold this year. I will not purchase non CAC as I believe a top set should have all coins solid for the grade. I also thought that the two DCAM's being close to 25K was too much to pay to boost my score.
I believe the other top people purchased them.

June 2015
I believe this set is actually the top set of PR Lib Nickels of all time. With all due respect to Mr. Groman and his wonderful set I am pretty sure I finally topped his score before the new PCGS pop bonuses were added. His score went from 68.13 to what it is now. So the average score of the coins in my set are higher than the top set.
Mr. Groman received 5 top pop bonuses and seven ties. I received 3 top pop and eight ties. This is the difference in the total scores making my set two and not one.
I could possibly achieve top set if I choose to included non CAC or top for the grade coins.

I challenge Mr. Groman to compete with me on an even basis getting all CAC or + coins! After all the registry is about competition.
Congratulations Mr. Groman! Nice set.

I believe this set is actually the top set of PR Lib Nickels of all time. With all due respect to Mr. Groman and his wonderful set I am pretty sure I finally topped his score before the new PCGS pop bonuses were added. His score went from 68.13 to what it is now. So the average score of the coins in my set are higher than the top set.
Mr. Groman received 5 top pop bonuses and seven ties. I received 3 top pop and eight ties. This is the difference in the total scores making my set two and not one.
I could possibly achieve top set if I choose to included non CAC or top for the grade coins.

I challenge Mr. Groman to compete with me on an even basis getting all CAC or + coins! After all the registry is about competition.

This set was a long and difficult process. I resisted paying what I thought were crazy prices for two DCAM's that would have helped my score quite a bit. I have also passed on two or three 68's because they were not CAC. I am done with this set because I cannot compete with the top pop bonuses. Congratulations Mr. Groman! Nice set.

Image Item PCGS # Date Denom Grade PCGS # Pop PCGS # Pop Higher Pop Pop Higher Comments
1883 No CENTS 93878 1883 5C PR67+ DCAM 1 0 10
CAC
1883 With CENTS 93881 1883 5C PR67DCAM 2 0 23
CAC
1884 83882 1884 5C PR67+ CAM 6 0 60
CAC
1885 83883 1885 5C PR67+ CAM 2 0 22
CAC
1886 83884 1886 5C PR67+ CAM 3 0 30
CAC
1887 3885 1887 5C PR67+ 1 0 10
CAC
1888 3886 1888 5C PR67+ 2 0 20
CAC
1889 3887 1889 5C PR67 15 0 151
CAC
1890 83888 1890 5C PR66+ CAM 4 3 43
CAC
1891 83889 1891 5C PR67+ CAM 2 0 22
CAC
1892 83890 1892 5C PR67+ CAM 2 0 20
CAC
1893 83891 1893 5C PR67+ CAM 5 0 51
CAC
1894 83892 1894 5C PR67+ CAM 4 0 40
CAC
1895 83893 1895 5C PR67CAM 4 0 41
CAC
1896 93894 1896 5C PR66+ DCAM 1 1 112
CAC
1897 83895 1897 5C PR68CAM 3 0 30
CAC wow Bluish toning a gem!
1898 83896 1898 5C PR67+ CAM 3 0 30
CAC
1899 83897 1899 5C PR67CAM 3 1 34
CAC
1900 3898 1900 5C PR68 3 1 31
CAC
1901 93899 1901 5C PR66+ DCAM 2 3 271
CAC
1902 83900 1902 5C PR67CAM 10 0 104
CAC
1903 83901 1903 5C PR68CAM 2 0 20
NOT CAC But an amazing coin!
1904 83902 1904 5C PR66+ CAM 1 1 110
CAC
1905 83903 1905 5C PR67CAM 5 1 510
CAC
1906 83904 1906 5C PR67+ CAM 3 2 32
CAC
1907 3905 1907 5C PR67+ 18 0 180
CAC
1908 83906 1908 5C PR67+ CAM 2 1 22
CAC
1909 83907 1909 5C PR68CAM 5 0 50
CAC
1910 93908 1910 5C PR68DCAM 1 0 10
1911 83909 1911 5C PR67+ CAM 4 0 41
CAC
1912 83910 1912 5C PR67CAM 8 0 88
CAC

Comments


A terrific acomplishment! Going crazy for some top pop coins is a fortunate prerequisite for achieving number one these days at PCGS. Some unique opportunities only come around once every few decades. You stretched and voila!

Posted at 7/4/2018 12:37 PM by [email protected]

Would be nice to see the true views. Congrats on the set. -the Gypsy collection

Posted at 7/2/2018 7:48 AM by Jesh

Hello Larry! I just noticed these comments today, 12/26/2017. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes I have bought from your sales. It is hard to believe that only two of the Groman coins were upgraded. Did many others get pluses? I was only .07 behind and now I am .24. That makes me think it had to be more than two coins that either upgraded or received pluses. Did you pay the 25K set evaluation fee? I detest this and cannot comprehend it. I do not even agree with upgrading coins that I keep unless they pass CAC. Money is not everything. Thank you the Groman CAC info. It is interesting. The fact that ten coins did not pass (one third) tells me lots. I am sure the Groman set is beautiful. It should be as it is number one. However when coins do not pass CAC it means that there were issues with the coins. This is 100% true and not a subject for debate. The issues can be wear, hairline, finger marks, bad toning and various other things. The debate: Is the coin the grade on the holder with the issues? Some say yes, many say no. It is very difficult to have a number one set all pass CAC. Many people buy the grade to get the points and forgo CAC. My Barber Half set could get to number one if I choose to buy non CAC coins, but I do not. CAC has been around for ten years. Most people respect their work even if some do not always agree. They have changed the coin market for the good and have made many buyers aware of severe grade inflation. By right, PCGS should give at least half a point to any CAC approved coin, but they choose not to. You might want to help Mr. Groman replace the ten coins that did not pass! Happy Holidays!

Posted at 12/26/2017 11:48 AM by Perfection

I just looked at all of your wonderful sets as listed here. Wonderful. I hope you do bid in our auctions. Again I have no idea who you are but you have assembled a great group of United States coins. Good Luck. Also if you do not get our cats let me know and I will make sure you get them. Larry Goldberg

Posted at 12/14/2017 1:42 PM by GCCA

By the way Richard Groman has never sent a coin to CAC. I told him that in today's market it is good to have the stickers. Larry Goldberg

Posted at 12/14/2017 1:38 PM by GCCA

Hello; I am Larry Goldberg and I sent the Groman collection to PCGS for new holders and two graded higher although I thought about 6 others would of gone up by a plus or more. After they were done at PCGS I had the collection Brinks to CAC. For your info 21 of his coins got Green stickers and 10 did not. I think he did just fine. I am giving back to Richard his coins today to go back to his vault. After seeing his collection I can tell you it is the best Liberty Proof collection I have ever seen. I have been in the coin business since 1952 and have sold at auction and assembled a lot of great collection. I have also sold the 1913 Nickel. Maybe one day you will be able to see Richard's wonderful collection of Proof Nickels and he told me that your collection is very nice. Hope you enjoy this email. Larry Goldberg

Posted at 12/14/2017 1:35 PM by GCCA

Hello A-C-D, Thanks for your comment. I do not have Groman envy! ☺ I simply buy beautiful coins, all CAC and sold for the grade. I could have been number one long ago if I bought non CAC coins. I choose not to. Sometimes number two is good enough. He has a wonderful set. it is amazing it has held the top spot for so many years. It has not been easy catching up. One reason I am close is that PCGS has made more top coins. This lowers the score of some top pops. I did NOT buy the 1910 that sold a few weeks ago for 36K. Adding that would make me number one. If I were envious I could have purchased it. Perhaps he did? Twenty of my coins are pluses. I continue to try and look for the most attractive coins and not necessarily the top grades. if I beat him one day so be it. Thanks for looking.

Posted at 11/14/2017 11:15 AM by Perfection

Re: Your Comments-- Though a layman, I feel confident in my diagnosis: you've got Groman envy.

Posted at 11/7/2017 5:31 PM by A-C-D

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